Podcast: Building a Winning Program From Scratch

Not that long ago, Medomak Valley didn't have a football team, but that all changed with the start of Medomak Youth Football and the addition of a varsity program 10 years ago. Since then, the Panthers have been at least the Regional Final for the past 3 seasons. I spoke to Head Coach Ryan Snell about how they've built a consistent winner from scratch, why 11-man is better than 8-man, the intersection of wrestling and football, his days at Brewer, and so much more.

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Transcript (auto generated)

Welcome to the Maine Basketball Rankings podcast.I'm your host, basketball data nerd, Lucas McNelly.It's a football theme show today.This is the This year is the 10th anniversary of Medomak Valley joining the football varsity ranks.In that time they've gone to, they've been one of the more successful programs, one of the more successful launches of a program that we've seen.

0:24

They're going for their fourth straight trip to at least a regional final this year, so I had Ryan Snell, their varsity head coach, on to talk about the process of getting that program started, the future of it, all that fun stuff.Ryan's a very nice guy.

0:39

He's a very opinionated guy, as you will soon learn, so definitely stick around for that conversation.It was a pretty fun one.Had a little bit of technical snafus in there that I've mostly been able to clean up in the edit.So if you hear that, that's what that is.

0:57

So quick programming note before we get to that, with football season starting, the newsletter is going to go to I believe two days a week.It goes to six days a week, as you might remember for basketball.But that's insane and I can't do that all year.

1:15

So we go, we're going to two days a week, I think for football and soccer and fall sports season.And the podcast is going to go to once a week, potentially twice a week.We'll see how it goes.So if you.Are someone who pauses your subscription for the summer or whatever, now's a good time to turn it back on if you know someone who you think would like the subscription or just wants the free version of the newsletter, spread the love, tell them about it, and they'll love you for it or they'll hate you for it It's one of those things.

1:48

Those are probably the two options.So, yeah.And if you, I put this out there on social media, but if you're a business and you want to advertise in this space, go ahead and reach out.It's I'll put the e-mail address, pop it up on here.

2:05

So and just send me an e-mail and we'll get that sorted because it's probably past time for me to try to monetize or put some small ads on this website on the podcast that would, you know, make sense to the Mainers who watch the show.

2:21

OK, so all that being said, let's go to my conversation with Medomak Valley head football coach Ryan Snell.My guest today is the head football coach of the Medomak Valley Panthers and.Former Brewer witches.

2:38

Well, standout is standout the right word.Ryan Snell, thanks for joining me.Yeah, I don't know about standout, maybe, you know, partial athlete many moons ago, but you know, proud alum, that's for sure.Well, that's really the most important part.

2:56

So actually those my first question was going to be, and I came up with this question today, I was like, I'm going to start asking coaches this, how would first of all, what position did you play at Brewer?So I played football, basketball and baseball played.I played quarterback and corner football wise as a point guard because I couldn't shoot and then played some middle and field in baseball so.

3:20

All right, so how would Coach Snell game plan against young athletes?Snell.He would just go right at him because young athletes, Snell, you know, didn't watch as much as he should have, didn't didn't hit the weight room as much as he should have.

3:38

And you know, as I tell the kids, it's do as I say, not as I did so to speak.Well, they say the best coaches are the ones who weren't very good players.You know, like your backup catcher types.I would much rather be a great coach than a former great player any day of the week.

4:02

All right, So I wanted to have you on to talk about this program you guys have built at Medomak seemingly out of scratch.So to back people up a little bit Medomak, when I was young and growing up in Wall where we did not have football of any kind other than the guy in our church who almost played for the Steelers.

4:19

That was our only football in town.And we would play touch football with him sometimes and he would just dominate, as you might imagine.So it what?So is it 2010 that the youth football program was started? Yeah, I believe it's 12/20/12.

4:38

OK.That was K.So that was started.I did a little bit of research here.Bye.Oh, I lost you there.Sorry.And so was that.That was started by Naomi and Fritz Miller.

4:53

Right, Right.Yep, Yeah, that's correct.So they, Naomi and Fritz had had two sons, one of which was at the time playing youth football over in Rockland.And then actually they're both playing youth football in Rockland.One was playing club high school football at Lincoln Academy, which was called Lincoln County Youth Football.

5:13

And yeah, they had a vision of creating a football program at Badamac that, you know, ultimately their younger son could become a varsity athlete in.And yeah, they obviously got it done.Very impressive what they did.Yes, I imagine starting something like that from scratch.

5:34

Were you there for this part of it, or were you you were still at Brewer?No, I was down here.So a buddy of mine, Jake Emerson, went to the first meeting they had and Jake mentioned it to me because I had coached.I was an assistant at Brewer before I moved down here and my wife and his wife worked together at my wife's daycare at the time.

5:55

And so Jake, you know, heard about this football program starting and mentioned it to me about, you know, potential of getting involved in coaching.And to be honest, I was skeptical because it's like, you know, starting a football program, like if it was that easy, it would have been done in Medomak 2030 years ago whenever the school started.

6:15

And but yeah, coming out of that.So I went to the second meeting they had and coming out of that, I was like, man, like these these two people are going to get this done.It was incredibly impressive.You could just tell by, you know, their organization and everything they had planned that that it was going to happen and, and obviously it did.

6:41

What was it about them like other than just the organization?Because you can be organized and can still, you know, you still have to be able to talk a lot of other people into into seeing this vision like what about it was so.Compelling from them.

6:58

Yeah, just everything was so structured and and if you know Naomi and Fritz, they're they're not going to take no for an answer.They were bound and determined that this was going to work and they're just absolute go getters when it came to getting everything done involved with this.

7:15

They had a plan set up to start K through 8 with the youth program for a year.So that first year coach the middle school team with Jason Stewart, who is still with the program now as our defensive coordinator, and then their plan was to add a high school club team the following year.

7:35

They were in constant communication with the school.We followed MPA rules right from the start.We kept track of kids grades.We got permission from their parents to get their grades.We followed the school's grade policy when we were club team, you know, we did everything as though we were an MPA program so that the school would see that and gain their trust that this was going to be something that was going to be sustainable for the long term.

8:04

And just, yeah, they just, they had a plan.They they built a great base with the youth program and made sure that was there to start and then the high school team after that.So ultimately the kids had a place to play and they were start starting early and then 20, I believe it was 2014, we joined.

8:26

We, we are fortunate.Holton joined varsity football, which created an odd number of teams at the MPA level.And there was a bye week in the LTC, which was last D at the time.And we got asked to fill that bye week.And then the following year, 2015, we were approved as a, as a full varsity sports.

8:46

Back then you had the play 2 years of JV football to show that you were going to sustain yourself as a varsity sport and then you were eligible to become a varsity program and you also had to play if you were if there was a class below you, you had to play down for two years and be playoff ineligible.

9:06

So we were in D for our first two years and and couldn't make the playoffs, but we knew that going into it.So it was what it was.Now you can play anywhere you want and be eligible for playoffs, play 8 man, play down a class, do whatever.So it's even in our short time, the game's changed a lot, so it's been interesting.

9:29

It's Ted.It has indeed, Yeah.So how much of that following the MPA's rules from the get go, how much of that was to get the kids used to what they were going to have to expect or have to play by when they got to high school, if and when you're able to turn into a varsity sport?

9:48

Yeah, that was a big piece of it, just to get that structure.They knew what was going to be expected.You know, they just became familiar.You know, they, they probably knew about the MPA and and rules and everything from the other sports, from basketball and everything like that.We didn't have a ton of kids from the other sports because being a club team, again, there wasn't a lot to play for on the, you know, periphery.

10:12

It was you, you, you weren't playing for a playoff spot.You weren't, you know, they weren't able to get a varsity letter.They weren't getting all, all conference awards.They weren't getting academic all conference.They were just playing, playing for pride and playing for the fact that they were building the foundation of what would ultimately end up being a varsity program.

10:32

I mean, I, I still remember Colton Spear was our first, you know, real, you know, big get, so to speak, as a multi sport athlete at Madonna.He was obviously a, you know, a good basketball player and he played, he played tailback and middle linebacker for us where your club team and we are very fortunate that, you know, by playing that by week in the LTC our first year in 2014, some of the people involved in the Lobster Bowl saw what we were doing and and we were actually able to get Colton into the Lobster Bowl that year as a representative, our first Rep from Medomac Valley, even though we weren't technically a varsity sport.

11:11

So just little things like that were just huge in building building, you know, the program, but also building confidence in our community and the administration and the school board to to give us that approval we needed to to become a varsity sport.Colton Spears, one of my favorite basketball players because in four years I swear that kid never took a shot from beyond the free throw line.

11:35

And like in.Warmups never and he was like 6 feet tall so you would guard him like a guard.Yeah, no, he was a, he was a banger on.Yeah, he just never, never took one.He did all the little things.He took charges, he got rebounds and I'll tell you, he was a heck of a football player.

11:52

He's still one of the hardest hitters that we've had, you know, in our in our program's history.And you know, again, we're whatever it's been 12 years into it now.And but yeah, you grow, you grow up on the farm and, and get some farm work in there.

12:07

You're a strong kid And and Colton certainly was that.All right, so I'm going to take you back to that first year.So I found an article there.It is in right before your first actual varsity game, talking to Ernie Clark at the BDN.

12:27

You said we just made a decision as a group that we wanted to take our time with it.We didn't want to make the mistake of rushing it for the sake of one specific group of kids or something like that and then have it all fall apart.We've always said it's program 1st and individual 2nd, and we've really stuck to that model.

12:43

So that was 10 years ago now.How do you feel like?Is that still the approach?Has that changed at all?No, it's always going to be programmed first.I mean, ultimately you want this to be around for a long time, you know, and, and it, it's going to be like this program is going to be around long after myself or, you know, any of the players or anybody that's been involved with it or started it or anything is, you know, we're all going to be long gone and this program is still going to be around.

13:15

I firmly believe that they're still going to be playing, you know, football in Medina Valley and and just like they're still playing basketball, it's just going to be a solid program and be there for a long time.And yeah, if we, you know, we, we've maintained that, maintained that mentality.

13:33

And to me, that's the most important thing really, or one of the most important things in building a program is having that belief that it's about the program.It's not about us.You know, we've got a great group of coaches that are involved that, you know, again, it's about the program, not us.

13:50

None of us care about any individual recognition.We're not doing it for that.You know, we're doing it for the kids that are involved.And you know, hopefully those kids love the program and they get involved in it in some capacity when they're around.And you know, we're, we're kind of, we're a year or two away from having a couple of former players, kids playing for us, believe it or not, which is pretty cool in our youth program.

14:16

And yeah, it's, we're proud of that.I think we have, we have 4-4 or five madonic alums on our, on our football staff.Now at the high school level, we got 2 alums that are former players that coach our middle school team.

14:35

Yeah, we're getting former players involved in the youth level too.So it's pretty awesome.How?But kids are kids, and we all are familiar with how the brain of a 15 year old boy works.

14:51

How do you get a bunch of 15 year old boys to buy into that?Is there a trick to it?It's, it's constant really.I mean, it's an everyday thing.It's it's, it's hard to, you know, again, talking about, you know, mention to me when I'm, when I was an athlete earlier, you know, there's a lot of times where I was a selfish athlete and looking back at it as an adult, as a coach, you know, I try to learn from those experiences.

15:18

And, you know, when I was that age, I thought it was a great teammate.But, you know, you look at, you know, you look back at sometimes and you know, you probably probably being picky about it as a coach now, but the times I could have been a better teammate or, you know, not worried about my stats or if I made all conference or things like that.

15:36

So, yeah.And it's, you know, we've we've talked about it with this year's team specifically and you know, the guys all know I'm a big Michigan fan and obviously our colors are Michigan colors.So that kind of, you know, works out good for us with some, you know, our our clothes and things like that.

15:52

But autos too, like Michigan had a great shirt this year with team over me.And it's a great motto for this specific group.We got a lot of very good players on this year's team.And if they buy into everything as a group, you know, we get a shot to, you know, to have some success.

16:12

If they don't and they're worried about doing, you know, individual things and reaching individual goals, we could have a bad year.So, you know, ultimately, they want to win.They want to work hard for each other.Football's the Ultimate Team sport, in my opinion.

16:28

It gets, you know, there's a spot on the field for every shape and size.That's the beauty of it.And yeah, it's just a constant daily, you know, not so much struggle or battle or anything, but just constant, you know, day-to-day, just making sure these kids are focused on each other, focused on the team and what's best for us.

16:46

And when you're out there on that football field and you're out there for yourself, that shows up pretty glaringly on film and to everybody around.So the guys have done a really good job of buying into that.They know what the expectations of the program are year to year.

17:02

The senior groups always step up and make sure the younger guys understand that too.And you know, we're only a week 1/2 into it, you know, this year roughly, or two weeks, whatever.But they've done a good job so far.OK.So in that vein, in the regional final against Herman, you had to do or you did what got to be one of the more difficult things to do coaching football and making a quarterback change mid game.

17:26

So how much of the team first mentality goes into that and then what's the thought process behind doing that?Yeah, it's tough.In that situation.You just kind of, you know, it's a feel thing during the game where, you know, we want to get the ball in Gabe's hands.

17:43

In that specific situation, we felt it was something Hermon hadn't prepared for or looked at because we hadn't shown it a lot and just kind of gave us a change of pace offensively.And, you know, thankfully they hadn't really prepared for that and it caught him off guard a bit and we were able to, you know, tip the momentum in our favor a little bit.

18:04

You know, it was a game that we had no momentum and we were down 12, nothing at the half.They had the ball coming out of the half scored again, it was 18, nothing.We really had, you know, we just didn't have anything going for us.Yes, we just made the switch.I mean, we had we had put Gabe out there in the first half a couple at least one series and then went right through in the second-half.

18:26

And it was just something that it worked and it was, you know, got the momentum going our way.We got fortunate that they ran a jet sweep after our first touchdown as well that we are They had a little bit of a mishandle.We were able to jump on it.So that helped spin the momentum even more and really get in our favor.

18:45

And then, you know, you get a crazy bounce on 1/4 and three play where we thought we had to stop.The ball goes in the air and kind of falls into Max Hopkins hand.They get a first down.And Kidd had an unbelievable game.He had four touchdowns for them and he was in the right place at the right time, Made a made a play for him.

19:02

And but yeah, that's never an easy decision making a, you know, making a switch.And, you know, but kids respond to that well.And, you know, we really highlighted, you know, Wyatt Simmons, who was the quarterback who made the change, you know, for in that game.

19:20

We highlighted him this past Saturday in our scrimmage and why it's worked his butt off all four years.He really did it, you know, this summer.And he ran the ball just really, really well this past Saturday and threw it well, too.

19:40

And just super proud of him, the hard work that he's put in.Thought it really paid off well this Saturday.And the guys saw it.They were excited about it, even had a bloody nose going at one point.But no, I'm good.I was like, dude, we got to, we got to at least wipe your face off here.

19:56

We can't just, you know, leave you out there gushing blood on the field, but not wiped it off.Want to go back in?He's going to be a huge piece for us again this year and he was a huge piece for us last year.So it was just a game time thing that we made.And who knows, we could make it in a different spot.

20:14

We've done it.You know, it's, it's highlighted more because it was a quarterback change.We've done it with running backs, we've done it with lineman, we've done it with defensive players.You know, obviously at the quarterback position you see things more, but we've had a ton of confidence in all those guys.

20:31

Expecting big things out of why again this year, just like you did last year and, you know, excited to have him lead us back there again.And the game, for those who don't know, is Gabe Lash, who was one of the Mr. Basketball finalists. 66 You know, one of the better athletes in the state, and so if you can get him the ball, you try to get him the ball because he's going to be a hard guy to pull down.

20:55

Yeah, no.And he just kind of, he happened to catch fire that game.He hadn't really run for us much.I mean, I think we did we, we gave some looks at that against Belfast.Other than that, he'd been primarily the receiver and, you know, had a few carries here and there throughout the year, you know, just happened to work that game and, and it worked out where we were able to get ourselves back into it and have a shot.

21:19

You know, it could have been.And ironically, we did that same thing.What was it 3 years ago against Oceanside in the regional game?We actually brought Wyatt in with a QB change late in that game, you know, as a sophomore to to give us, you know, a different look there.

21:38

So, yeah, I mean, it's something we've done before.I mean, it's just kind of a, it's a feel thing as a coach and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.So yeah, it's.Is it a whole, is it a whole like discussion at halftime or you just go, you just sort of look at the offensive coordinator and go, let's do it.

21:58

It's a bit of both.I mean, it's something that you prepare for.I mean, you always have.We want to be 3 or 4 deep at every position if possible.I mean, that's not always, not always possible, especially in, you know, Maine high school sports.You just don't have that depth, but you always have some stuff in your back pocket for situations just in case.

22:17

You know, again, that was a field thing where, you know, we came out of the second-half, we weren't able to get a stop and, and they were up 3 scores at that point and we just, we just had to try something to see if we could get a little bit of a spark going.

22:32

And again, it could have gone either way.We could have made that change and, you know, could have just not worked at all.It could have been something Herman prepared for and you know, it it wouldn't have been, you know, it wouldn't have looked great.

22:47

We just happened to get back in the game and had a shot.So it, you know, it worked well at the time.But yeah, it's it's a little bit of both.Again, preparation throughout the week, some conversation at halftime and then, you know, again, after you get that third score, it's like, all right, we got to, yeah, we got to do something here to try to switch things up, switch, switch the momentum because the the field is really tilted at that point and not in our favor.

23:12

And to be fair though, you were down 18 nothing, but at the being at the game, it could have very easily have been tied because you had a couple.I think you got inside the five yard line a couple times and just couldn't put it in.If I'm remembering the if I'm remembering the game correctly, there were 3 or 4.

23:31

You mentioned the the 4th and three play where the ball just bounced the wrong way.I think there were probably 3 or 4 plays where the ball just bounced the wrong way for you.Yeah.And it's.Yeah, that's, you know, that's sports, that's football.I mean, we had some, you know, some chances where we did move the ball and just didn't finish.And, you know, a couple years earlier, the bounces in that regional game against Herman, you know, went our way.

23:52

So, you know, some things went their way.They had, again, they had momentum and you know, we were the 2 seeds, we were the 1 seeds, we were the away team.But you know, obviously being in Hamden next town over from Herman, we were really the away team.So it was when you're winning in that situation and you're up, you know, you don't, you don't feel as squeezed or whatever.

24:14

But yeah, when you're down and you're on the road and you're in their backyard, it's, you know, again, you don't have a lot of time to see if things are going to figure themselves out.Sometimes you just got to make some tough decisions, make some changes and and go with it.

24:32

But again, our kids are mature enough that they can respond well to it.And, you know, they all know we have a ton of confidence in all of them, and not only confidence in game a confidence that they're going to respond and work hard and and come back even better.So, yeah, just, you know, again, having that relationship with the kids, we know we can make some decisions and they're not going to take that personally for the long term.

24:59

And yeah, they're, they're going to battle.Now, I know you talked about this on The Ticket earlier this week, or maybe it was the end of last week.I saw it this week.You've developed a nice little rivalry with Herman out of seemingly nowhere.Three, I think the last three seasons you guys have eliminated each other from the playoffs.

25:21

What's it like to have a rivalry like that develop and would you like to maybe not see them this year in the playoffs?So actually the last four years, so four, yeah.I was fortunate enough to be asked by Coach Glant to be on his staff at the Lobster Bowl this summer.

25:37

And we've developed a good friendship over the years, ironically out of that rivalry, you know, very similar thoughts on our programs and how we run things.You know, same, our families are similar.We got three kids.They're all about the same age.But yeah, four years ago, you know, I think it was 21, we, you know, we were the one seed and they upset us as the four seed in the semi finals.

26:04

And then the following year, 22 was the year we went to the state game.We beat them in the regional final up in Hamden and then 2023 we beat them at Madomic in the semi finals and then last year they beat us in the regional finals.

26:20

So yeah, eight games in four years, which is obviously the Max.Super weird not having them on our regular season schedule this year.Are they not?I hadn't looked that closely.No.Weird.That was the first thing I noticed and probably the first thing Kyle noticed as well.

26:38

You know, not having them on there is just really strange.But yeah, I just, I have a ton of respect for Kyle and that program and everything they're doing.They're impressive.Their their youth numbers are unbelievable.I know their youth enrollment is increasing like crazy.

26:58

You know, they've, they've really got a great thing going up there.It's a tough place to play When you play up there.It's fun though, too.It's a great atmosphere.Yeah.Inevitably I, I would not be surprised if we do end up playing each other in the playoffs.It's just we we always seem to find each other one way or the other.

27:15

And not only that, but they've the softball teams found each other, and the monomic softball team got a little bit of revenge for you.Yeah, softball, you know, there's a great, great game.We were up with that one.Heck of a battle by both teams.I think it was 1, nothing.And then our girls soccer teams played in the regional final as well.

27:33

Herman won that one.So we kind of we.Can't avoid it.No, it's just Madamic and Herman and everything.So we're probably our, I don't know if we have a chess team or something or math team probably playing each other too.So.All right.So I was talking, want to talk a little bit about MADAMIC as a whole 5 regional finals this past year, past school year, which is I think out of seven sports that play in a tournament.

27:59

So it's not, it's not a rich community financially, it's not a private school where, you know, it's like a Wayne fleet.It's the oldest county in the state of Maine.Like that's and it's pretty far from the big cities.So what's happening at Madomic that's allowing all of these different programs to thrive?

28:21

Yeah, I think, you know, success breeds success.And you got a lot of, you know, athletes that are working hard, that are supporting each other.You know, we try to make it to, you know, soccer games throughout the year, both girls and boys.You know, basketball, everybody's at basketball all winter.

28:43

You know, to your point, there's, you know, we're not a rich community.It's blue, you know, blue collar, hard working community.There's not a ton to do around here.So yeah, go to those games.You support each other and you support the kids.A lot of time we travel on the road to do that, too.

29:00

I know football wise we always have great crowds on the road.Yeah, it's just, you know, all the pro.All those Mid Coast teams travel really well.Yeah, very much so, yeah.Springtime softball obviously had a heck of a year get, you know, finishing out with a gold ball.

29:17

Baseball had a heck of a year as well, you know, boys basketball undefeated regular season, got to the regional final against York.You know, girls basketball was right there, right there with Oceanside and in their playoff game, both soccer teams.Regional final, football regional final.

29:35

Yeah.Just a great group of athletes in the school right now working hard and just supporting each other.And, you know, again, you see other teams having success.A lot of times that just rubs off on on your team and and you know, they, you know, expect to do well also.

29:52

How much if I always make the joke with basketball that every so often Nick Di Patzi will throw out a clam digger lineup, which is just a bunch of like, really like scrawny, strong, tough kids that don't necessarily look like they'd be that great, but you don't want to mess with them and you don't want to try to get a rebound away from them.

30:12

And how much, you know, because Waldorf, it's a or the whole, the whole Lincoln County, it's a lot of fishermen, it's a lot of clam diggers.It's a lot of people like that who work on farms and stuff like that.How much of that is going into the success, especially at football with like lineman and linebackers?

30:29

Yeah, it's big.I mean, you get a lot of pride there, first of all with with people that went to Medomic and now their kids are going there or maybe their grandkids going there.So you got that, you know, family history of, you know, of athletes and expectations and, you know, you're the next person out from that family to do well.

30:45

And we're kind of creating that in football where we haven't had that second generation come through yet.And that'll be, you know, a while high school wise, you know, another 10-12 years before we get to that.But yeah, it's just, you know, hard working groups.

31:04

We we always have multiple fishermen on the football team every year.The wrestling program has been huge for us.We have a lot of wrestling, a lot of wrestlers out there right now.You know, this year in particular, this group we've got, you know, I think 8-9 wrestlers on the team and you don't want.

31:26

To mess with those guys.Either successful, I mean that have done real well.So, you know, getting that, you know, relationship with that program has been huge for us, Translates well.But yeah, just hard working people overall.It's just, again, it's blue collar.

31:42

We get that grit, not afraid to get our hands dirty.You know, all those cliche sayings, but they're true around here.And that's just what, you know, one of the big things that makes this program successful.We're not afraid to, you know, do the little things it takes to to have that success.

32:01

I would imagine, now that you've mentioned it, that wrestling in football would be very complimentary programs.I imagine a lot of what they learn in football has got to help with wrestling and vice versa.Yeah, very much so.And I mean, even, you know, Naomi and Fritz, again, who started the program, I mean, their kids wrestled.

32:17

So it was kind of built on the, you know, on the basis or, you know, base of wrestling as well.You know, the current group all the way down into our youth program, you know, they've worked hard in the youth wrestling program to get that built back up and going, you know, get numbers stronger there.

32:38

Same thing with the high school.I mean, COVID really almost destroyed wrestling as a sport without all the rules and all that.I mean, they didn't even have a season.So you went from, you know, and I believe I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have a season.

32:54

So you went from like no, no wrestling at all with nobody participating to trying to build that back up.I think they had like they were down to like 5 wrestlers at Madomic maybe.Wow.And they get a whole bunch now.So they've the, the people involved in that program done a heck of a job building that back up and and that has helped us as well because we again, we get a lot of those kids.

33:17

All right, so let's talk about Class C this year.So it's gone.I was talking to Andrew Hart and he said it's gone.It's not NS anymore.It's just one.It's just one thing, right?One bracket.Yep, Yeah, we're statewide, statewide class.That's what I thought.Yeah, 13 teams, no regions.

33:34

OK, so who, without putting yourself on a bulletin board, who are The Who are the favorites in C this year?Yeah.I mean the, the big two big pieces that are coming into the class is, is Wells and Foxcroft.I mean they Foxcroft has had our number and by us, I'm talking about CN the last couple years, you know, they've been playing us.

33:58

They played us, they played Herman, they played some others, and I don't, I don't believe any of us beat them.I think Foxcroft beat every single one of us and they have a lot returning, so they're going to be strong.Wells obviously has beaten Foxcroft the last two years in the Class D state championship and is good every year no matter what class they're in.

34:21

So without knowing a ton about Wells, I would expect them to be tough too.You know, Levitt had a down year for Levitt last year and a down year for them was playing in the regional final, so.I got every Levitt game wrong on my spreadsheet last year.

34:38

Every single one.They're, they were pretty young last year.They have a lot back.They're they're going to be tough.It's, it's Levitt.They're always good.We have them coming here this year, which is, you know, going to be a big game.It's exciting.

34:54

It should be a great atmosphere to get a chance to play them in the regular season is, is pretty cool.You know, and, and again, CN is where my familiarity is.I mean, Oceanside's going to be tough.They got 3, I believe three out of their five starting lineman back.

35:12

They're huge.You know, they've beaten us two years in a row.So they've had our number, you know, they lose a couple guys in the backfield, but when you're running behind that line, you know, I mean me and you could probably have success running behind those guys.They're.

35:27

Get 3 or 4.They're human, so they'll be tough.Nicomas has both of their running backs back.They didn't graduate much at all.They were young as well.You know, Herman will reload.They're they're the defending champs, you know, in the North, even though there isn't a N.

35:43

So, you know, until somebody beats them, they're the defending champs in the North and you know, again, it's going to be tough all around.Like Brewer has huge numbers from what I heard and I think they have like 60 kids or something like that.It's crazy.Hamden's quarterbacks back, he's heck of an athlete.

36:00

He's tough.You know, old towns, new into the mix, don't know a bunch about them, but got to figure it out pretty quick 'cause we play them Week 1.So.And then again, those Southern teams, they've the South has won state championship and Class C for I don't know how many years in a row.

36:21

It's been a while.I don't know if Nokomis was the last one from the North to win it.And if they are, I think that would have been like 20-19 maybe or something like that, 2018.So it's it's been a while.So, yeah, it's to me, it's from top to bottom the toughest, you know, class in the state.

36:40

It's and I sure, I guess I'm saying that because I'm in it, but you're you're adding Greeley coming back from eight man, I believe it.I really get Greeley won it last year and they're coming back and they're in CI.Don't know there's not a.

36:57

The way you the way you describe it, it sounds like a north in basketball when there were 13 teams and I asked a coach with like a week left in the season, I'm like, so.And I think 8 made the tournament or something like that.And I was like, well, how many of these teams can realistically win the whole region?

37:15

And he goes 10 and I'm like, but only 8 are making the playoffs.He goes, yeah, I know.But ten of them could win the whole thing.It's just that, is it that level of just depth?Yeah, in my opinion, yes.I mean, you got, you know, again, we're going to go through the regular season, we're not going to all play each other and you know, we're getting into the playoffs and then we got to do it all again.

37:40

It's it's going to be an absolute gone, but it's awesome.It's exciting, It's great for football.And I know, you know, traditionalists or traditionally people like the regions, the north-south champions, all that.But you know you're going to get the two best teams in the state playing each other for a state championship by having a statewide Class C and you know that's you're going to have the best state matchup that you can get.

38:08

You can just call the the semi final game the regional final like.Yeah.There's no rule that says you can't do that.Yeah.And they're, they're in talks about that.I can't remember exactly what they're looking at or how they're going to do it.I mean, Class D was statewide in 22.I believe that was the year that we went to the state game against Levitt.

38:25

And I remember, I think it was Foxcroft and Lisbon ended up playing, but I'm pretty sure they were statewide that year and they recognize regional champions.So however they.Or you could just name the regions.You have to name it NS.You could just name the regions after like two players from the past, you know, like the the Bird and McHale regions and you just split them up.

38:49

Really.Hey, we won the bird region.Look at that.Yeah, there's a trophy.And I'm sure they're not going to try to change a ton because with the landscape of football, I mean, we're changing every year.Like again, with teams, teams have the ability to play down and and be eligible for the playoffs.You know, go to 8.

39:05

How do you?Feel about that, having not been able to do it when you were down in D for two years.Yeah, I mean, we like, I didn't overthink it a ton at the time because that's just how it was so.Yeah.To me, I mean, everybody's got to take care of themselves.You know, for us, like I'll never say we wouldn't do it because it may be a time where we need to play down and get ourselves kind of readjusted.

39:32

But at the same time, like if we're playing down and we're going, you know, five and three or six and two, the class down or, you know, making a playoff run, like in my opinion, we would, we would come back up, right.

39:48

Like if we can go three and five or two and six even in our own class, like we're going to have some down years.That's the reality of sports.It's inevitable, yeah.Always have to have a winning record or whatever.I mean, same with eight man.I mean eight man's been fantastic and again, everybody's going to do their own thing.

40:06

But you know, the last couple years we've had I think 7-6 or seven teams come back to 11 man and that's great.You know, we've also got got some teams with more kids on their roster than than we have for sure who are who are still playing there.

40:22

So it's like.You know, you hope that doesn't affect some of the smaller teams there and they kind of have to fizzle out because they're playing some of these bigger teams.But yeah, I guess what I'm getting at at some point, like you got to, again, in my opinion, if it was us, you got to make a decision like, you know, how long are we playing down before we're going to go back up?

40:42

Or are we going to just own it and we're just never going to go back.We're just going to stay here.This is what we are now.And we're just going to keep playing down.And I don't think anybody's ever been told no either.And I could be wrong.Maybe one or two have, but I don't know how many teams have been have asked to play down and been told no.

41:02

So there's never been like a, you know, a cut off for enrollment for eight man teams or, you know, teams asking to play down still, you know, I mean, what happens if a team in Class B is playing down to C and and wins A state championship or a team in C plays down to D and wins a class D state championship like.

41:21

Well, it almost happened in basketball with relegation and people were losing their minds.Yeah.And they changed that.So it's, yeah, it's, it's that, it's that fine line between doing what's best for your program and building it back up.But you know, you can't blur that line and and have it be to the point where you're just taking advantage of it or you're just down there winning because that feels good.

41:46

But the reality is you're not really playing where you're supposed to be playing.So, you know, again, everybody's going to take care of themselves, do what they want to do.But I guess you can't get mad when you get some criticism about it too, when you just kind of living there.

42:03

So, you know, it's it's kind of both, both.I always thought with the relegation stuff especially that it shouldn't be up to the teams because most of the time they're just gonna say, OK, yeah, sure, whatever, we'll go down or we'd like to go down because it's easier.

42:18

I always thought you should have like some sort of neutral third party go.No, no, you're not getting relegated.Like like no, in basketball.We'll bring it back to basketball a little bit.You know, you didn't need to relegate better for the better for girls because everyone could see that they had this great class coming and the same 1 Noble had Jamir Rose on the way already there actually.

42:39

And it already gone 8:00 and 8:00 or whatever.And 8-9 and Nine had already gone 9 and 9 in in AA.So you're like, well, I think they're going to be fine.And we would have relegated Nokomis the year Cooper and Ace showed up and that would have been a disaster.

42:55

They would have been in B and they would have won the B state title because they were one in 17-2 years before that.Yeah, yeah.And it's, you know, even though I have some of those rules in in place, I mean, that's where the schools need to step in, in my opinion and be like, not we have a good group coming.

43:14

Like we don't need to go down, don't just go down to, you know, again, Biddeford girls, I'm not really familiar with them, but I do I know they played Oceanside in the in the regional final and beat them.Oh, they're good, yeah.Even I think they almost want states, right?

43:29

So it's like, had that rule not been changed, are they going back up or are they still saying, you know, we're young, we're going to keep staying down and keep playing here because we're having success.Like it might be fun for them, but it's not fun for the real Class B teams that are, you know, supposed to be there.

43:48

So I think the, the, the thought of the rule in the sports is, is good and it, it means well, but there's always going to be instances where it's taking advantage of unfortunately and you know.

44:04

Human nature.Yeah, and if it's going to be there, the the schools are, you know, the schools themselves are going to be at the the ones that have to like, you know, look in the mirror and say, hey, we're we're kind of not doing the right thing here.Or we need to like challenge ourselves maybe and play, play where we're supposed to and see how it goes.

44:23

So.Yeah, because you have that, but then you have that team I just saw on social media, some high school team just lost their 93rd straight football game.And you're like, at that point, like, jeez, like go down to class if you can't just anything but that because that must be so demoralizing.

44:41

Yeah, and I mean, we've, we had, I mean, I, this was a long time ago and, and Dan O'connell's talked about this before and John Babs had a huge losing streak at one point back in like the maybe early to mid 2000s, something like that.

44:56

Like I feel like it was in the paper or Sports Illustrated or somewhere.And and they just, and they are in a tough situation, right?Like they're private school, but they don't there's no true youth program for them.They don't know from year to year who they're going to get coming in as freshman because you'll have, you know, Brewer youth football, Bangor youth football.

45:15

Some some of those kids might, might go to Babs, They might not.They had a huge losing streak and they, you know, figured it out.They won a state championship.They've improved.They're good most years now.

45:30

They they're they're competing and they're doing well.So it's like, you know, you'll have those walls and and then you get out of them.But you know, they definitely didn't lose 93 straight games.That's.That's rough.That's a lot, yeah.It's like kind of, I mean, I don't know, I wonder what they like was getting for a stipend down there.

45:48

That doesn't sound bad. 88 weeks and then you're off.You don't even have to be in the playoffs and you get your stipend and get out of there.So.Probably didn't have to do a lot of summer work either.No, and if you win one game you might get a statue out in front of the school.Yeah, well, the Wisconsin girls had that losing streak where they had last won in the Obama administration.

46:06

Yeah, and then they won this past season.Yeah, I think we were following that.We were up at the school and they were playing.I believe we were following that at during the day right then they went at one of the islands.It was on the island, yeah.Yes, we were like.It was like North Haven or something.We were scoreboard watching up in our weight room while the kids were lifting on your site actually, and you're like and was cast is going to get a win.

46:31

So that's pretty cool.You know, and that's a situation where that relegation thing is doing what it should.So you know, it's good.Good to see them kind of crack that and and get it.Figured it was, it was pretty dark there for both the boys and the girls where they were losing like 80 to 10 and like who is that benefiting?

46:50

That's not benefiting the winning team, the losing team, the bus driver, anybody.No, no.But it's still important.I mean, the kids need to have those activities and sports to do.You want to have some success, though.But you know, again, playing those sports means keeping their head on, head on straight in school, doing, you know, taking care of grades, all that stuff.

47:11

But yeah, losing by that much every night is discouraging for sure.All right.So I'm going to give you a chance here because I know, I think I know your answer here, but give me the pitch as to why teams, because there are some people who prefer eight man for various reasons.

47:27

Why should they prefer 11 man?Why are they wrong?I mean it's.Purely on a football sense, not a like logistics of how many kids are in your program or anything like that.Yeah, see, that part's hard because like I the eight man game is fun.Like it's fun to watch.

47:45

You know, traditionalists obviously are going to love, love 11 man, but eight man is great for the, in my opinion, for the right teams that that need it.I mean, you got schools like, you know, Booth Bay, for instance.I mean, they're, they're under 200 kids enrollment wise, right, I believe.

48:03

Yeah, I think so.Stearns is, you know, Stearns is like same thing down under 200 kids.It's not realistic for those schools to expect to have huge numbers and play.So having having that option is huge because it's, you know, really it saved football, as in a lot of football in a lot of communities in the state and been an important piece for them.

48:27

But you've had teams like, you know, Morse, Greeley, I think Miranda Cook, Matanacook, Deer ago, Mountain Valley, like they've all come back to 11.You know, they went down to 8.They built up their numbers, did a great job working hard at it and then got back to 11.

48:44

And a lot of those schools have that, you know, 11 man tradition.I mean, Matanacook's had football as long as I can remember.Mountain Valley obviously has had some historic, you know, teams over there.So just using using eight man as an, as a, you know, a piece to build back numbers, build that confidence and get back up to 11 has been has been huge for them.

49:07

And you know, again, it's an exciting version of the game.It's fun to watch.You know, I just hope everybody's doing it for the right reasons.And I would just, I would hate to see those schools, those particular small schools, the under 200 enrollments and and stuff like that, like, you know, lose out on things because they're playing schools with 700 kids in it or whatever that, you know, that's sure.

49:34

You know, it's tough.And I know they probably don't play each other because I think this large man and small man and all that.But yeah, it's, you know, it's wide open, that's for sure.I know I got a couple players on my team that would be pretty fun to watch playing 8.I mean Gabe Lash at 8 man would be pretty fun.

49:50

Yeah, it'd be tough.I mean, I don't know, you know, our running back might get 5000 yards if he went down to 8 man.He might, you know.He might get an 11 man.And we we played eight man before we actually played it when we were a club team, we played a couple eight man games against up teams and defense is an absolute nightmare to try to figure out so.

50:11

I bet.So Do you think I'll throw something off topic here for a little bit?Do you think we're we'll get flag football at any point?I don't know.I saw that map that was put out there and.That was way more states than I thought.Yeah, it's gained a lot of traction.You know, I don't, I don't know if it's had any discussion in the state at a serious level.

50:32

And I don't know that we have the student population the, you know, maybe in the southern part of the state they could look at something like that.I don't know if it's played in the spring maybe.I'm not sure.Yeah, I mean, even it was a spring thing.It's like, you know, at school like Madonna, we got what, 530 kids, 540 kids, something like that.

50:53

I mean, if you put that in the spring, you're taken away from baseball, you're taken away from track, potentially wasn't there.So it's just, you know, the you're not in a position enrollment wise to add, add sports at a, you know, a high level.

51:11

So it's just, it's tough.But southern Maine, you never know.They got some bigger schools down there.And you know, all it takes is a few schools to get it.I mean, look, you've seen lacrosse grow.You've seen volleyball grow.Madomic has a volleyball team now.

51:27

Yeah, you know, I mean, you see with.The least experienced volleyball coach in the state.Hey, they no pressure on them.We told them, you know, the expectation is undefeated, so he's good.All right, two more things.

51:47

One thing I ask everybody is let's say the MPA gives you absolute power for one day.You can do whatever you want.They have to do it.What do you do?Oh wow.One thing that you just wave a magic wand and it's it's a thing.

52:04

I'm moving.I'm moving the basketball tournament.This would get everybody fired up, but OK.The basketball tournament quarterfinals, at the very least for every every class, are being played at the High Seeds home gym.Oh.

52:20

We're getting we're getting some atmosphere going for those quarterfinal games, OK.The regional finals are always awesome big crowds.The state finals are always awesome big crowds.If you if you go to a quarterfinal Class D Monday at Augusta.

52:36

Oh, those are rough.That's not not awesome, but the travel would be pretty bad.We always look at would be some of those playing games.I think one year we saw Ashland was playing Jonesport and it was like a four hour bus trip for a prelim game.So, yeah, not sure how that would work out for a, you know, Wednesday night quarterfinal, but.

52:58

And they had to win a game to get that game to go get blown out.Yes they did by.Jonesport Beals.That's rough.Get that quarter final game down at Jonesport.They can stay at the Jonesport Motor Inn or whatever, the hotel down and Beals and we'll get get some atmosphere going for those things.

53:18

That would stretch me a bit thinner for attorney week.Yeah, that'd be that'd be tough for the coverage people.So it'd.Be a little tricky, all right?And one more thing, give you a chance to hype up your daughter's photography skills.I see here on every sideline now taking photos like what?

53:36

How did she get into that?And like, how's it going is?She dug a camera out and started taking some photos and absolutely loves it.So we, you know, last last winter, I guess it was when the madomic boys and girls basketball teams were playing the tournament, messaged Matt and said, hey, you know, Caroline would love to take some pictures of the team.

53:58

Some of the kids had asked her about it and so we got a media pass and she was able to sit on the on the end line there and take some photos and made a little Instagram page there to, to put some on from the different sports.And I know the kids at the school like it.

54:15

She's done a couple senior pictures actually this year of, of some of the guys.So that's been pretty cool to see.And yeah, something she's really enjoyed and you know, the sports, sports pictures specifically has been a big thing she's enjoyed.

54:32

So she plays softball in basketball too.I'm sure if she could take the camera out there whether she would, but.This strap a GoPro on the forehead.But yeah, when she's not playing, she's usually, you know, getting some pictures of them and and really enjoys it so.Awesome.

54:48

And she was at the Lobster Bowl.I saw her taking pictures there.Yeah, that was the coolest surprise because of course I was up there for the week, so I hadn't seen them for a week.And, you know, all of a sudden she's out on the field.And it was Jeff Randall was one of the players from Lewiston.

55:03

His mom was was kind of down there somewhere.Caroline filled me in on all this afterwards.But Jeff Randall's mom said, hey, you know, go down or come down or go down there and get a pass or whatever it was.So yeah, his his mom ended up hooking her up with wherever she needed to go to get a pass and she was able to get right out on the field, get some awesome pictures, some awesome keep takes for me and and for a bunch of the do So, you know, we sent it to, you know, obviously gave them Porter were there.

55:32

We sent them the pictures.All the coaches that I worked with for the week and a bunch of the kids that I met was with there for the week with and they really enjoyed those.So that was pretty cool.Turns out it's actually really easy to get a pass for the Lobster Bowl.Like, I tracked one down the day before, and then they were going to put me on a list or something, and I just sort of walked up with a book bag.

55:53

And this woman goes, oh, your media.I'm like, yeah, sure.So yeah, that they're awesome down there.That whole experience was unbelievable.I mean, I've been to the game most years and I'm watching.Being a part of it was like.

56:09

Was this your first year coaching it?Yeah, first year.Oh, cool.You know, I'd always Dan O'Connell again at Babs.He'd always talk to me about doing it and tried to get me to do it for years.You know, Kyle had reached out last year, actually last like December when he knew.

56:27

And this was like, not this past, but the December before he knew it was going to be class CS turn to be the head coach and he was going to be doing it having already coached in the game and just told me to figure it out with work.And so I did.And then yeah, I'm glad I did because it was just, the whole week was just incredible.

56:44

Foxcroft does a top notch job, to say the least, of hosting all the kids and coaches for the week.You know, BJ Robbins, Joe Herson, the whole obstacle staff just puts on an incredible event.A ton of work for them goes into it, but they raised a lot of money.

57:02

I think they raised over $230,000 this year.That sounds right, yeah.Between both teams and both cheering squads and that set a record.So yeah, what a what a great thing.Awesome.All right, I've taken enough of your time.Do you want to make a prediction for your record this year?

57:19

O and eight.O and eight there.You go Old Town, Old Towns got a new coach and there's no better way for a new coach, for a new team to start things off with a win.And they're coming down in madomic Week 1.There was a young coach at Madonna who did that, you know, 10 years ago in 2015 with with Bucksport and Joel, the town and we were able to get a win.

57:43

So Old Town to be ready.And if we're not, you know, we're going to be hurting.So yeah, we're not looking anywhere past them and we got to be ready for them.But if I had to guess, on the whole season O and eight.O and eight.Yeah, All right.Like seat expectations?

58:00

Just like our basketball team is going to be O and 18 so.All right.Thanks so much for doing this.Hey, thanks Lucas.I appreciate it bud.Have a great night.You too.OK, that's the show.Thanks to Ryan once again.That was a great interview.

58:16

Great talking to him.Best of luck to him and his team, all for this coming season.That'll do it.This has been a production of Maine basketballrankings.com, your source for the most comprehensive coverage of Maine high school basketball from Ashland to York and everywhere in between.

58:32

This podcast is available wherever you listen to podcasts and a bunch of places you don't.If you enjoy this, please leave a nice review because it really does help out with algorithms.Tell your friends, tell your enemies.Thanks for listening.